Google+ Facebook Twitter Tumblr YouTube Email RSS Login

Forum

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.





Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (SPOILERS)
Ja-Mez
Administrator
Posts: 125
Permalink
Post Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (SPOILERS)
on: March 6, 2013, 17:57
Quote

As some people around here have slowly been gravitating towards this series I thought some people might be interested in a spoiler discussion thread.

First of all I want to propose a theory: Karai (Shredder's protege/"daughter") = Miwa (Hamato Yoshi/Splinters lost daughter)

Some of you may not be there yet and there is nothing substantial to support this claim, but upon a recent rewatch of the pilot two-parter I noticed a couple of things.
- The introduction of Miwa is a new element to TMNT lore as it's the first time Splinter has a daughter. The show has been especially vague about her, and given Splinter's occasional glance at his shrine for her and her mother, there are still (obviously) deep emotions over her loss. It seems like such an odd thing to introduce (albeit vaguely) to the franchise if just for the origin so I am guessing the show runners intend for her (or her memory/influence) to play some part later in the series
- Though the show leads you to believe that Miwa died with her mother Teng Shen in the same fire that scarred Oroku Sakai (Shredder), I find the phrasing Splinter uses to be rather interesting noting Shen's death but stating the Miwa was "lost". While that could denote her death as well, I think it's far more likely the show runners are being coy and though Splinter isn't aware she still lives, they meant from the beginning to bring her back while making you assume she died with her mother.
- Karai would be about the right age (close to the Turtles' age, perhaps a bit older) for Miwa, and it would add an interesting twist to the series if Splinter's lost daughter was raised by The Shredder, his former rival turned enemy. It would also add a little more dimension to Shredder (who tends to be rather one note in a lot of depictions) as he was also in love with Shen and is now raising her daughter as his own.
- Given Leo's fascination with her and his steadfast belief that there is good in her it would be interesting to watch her redeemed. While it's not unheard of for Leo to be fooled, he tends to have a really good moral compass and I don't think he is wrong in this instance.

I am also intrigued by the recent revelation that the Krang were after April not her father Kirby. I don't have a theory as to why but it's certainly a story that I want to see more of. That's part of what I love about this new series: It's simple and accessible for kids with a good sense of humour but like any good Turtle's story it has a good ongoing element and developing plot and characters. I look forward to see where they go with things.

Stay Stalwart!

Paige
Newbie
Posts: 6
Permalink
Post Re: Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (SPOILERS)
on: August 11, 2013, 14:09
Quote

Theory proven, though I swear I called this a while ago to some of my friends. It was a little obvious ever since we were introduced to Karai. I mean, what self-respecting woman would want to be with Shredder long enough for that to happen? Add that to the fact that April caught Karai off-guard when she mentioned not having a mother, and it's ridiculously easy to put two and two together.

May I also point out that not only is Teng Shen not a Japanese name in any respect, but I can't seem to trace it to any source. No baby name database (writer's best friend!!!) has any variation of the name, which leads me to believe that the creators made up the name thinking it sounded "Asian", a weak and slightly annoying move. Miwa does mean beautiful harmony/peace, though, which redeems them only slightly. Again, Karai does not seem to be a real name, and the closest I could find is Kura, which means treasure house. An interesting name for Shredder to give his adoptive daughter, perhaps. Maybe he had come to truly love her as his own, as it was the last either he or Splinter had of her mother.

Ja-Mez
Administrator
Posts: 125
Permalink
Post Re: Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (SPOILERS)
on: August 11, 2013, 17:47
Quote

ARGH! I wrote up a whole long reply and the internet ate it. 🙁 Will have to retype later...sigh.

Stay Stalwart!

Ja-Mez
Administrator
Posts: 125
Permalink
Post Re: Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (SPOILERS)
on: August 13, 2013, 17:20
Quote

Yes Teng Shen the character is actually Chinese, though I don't recall if that's a retcon or if that was always the design. And you are correct that Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird would often pick names that sounded Asian, or possibly just made them up, rather than sourcing actual Japanese names based on meaning. To be fair they never intended TMNT to be more than a one shot, that paid loving tribute to their idol Jack Kirby while being a parody of then popular comics Daredevil, X-Men, Ronin and Teen Titans. So the idea of putting deeper thought into the origins and the meaning of character names (or being authentic to their apparent nation of origin) probably weren't high priorities. They never expected the series to take off like it did (though there are tales that they would conflate the value of the book by artificial means in order to attract collectors etc).

And in Shen's defense we don't know much about Sakai before the series start. He has on occasion shown softer sides of himself in other versions and Splinter acknowledges that they once had a brotherly relationship. It's entirely possible he was a much kinder man. Unfortunately he is also an incredibly driven and ambitious man and doesn't like to lose. So while he isn't a great guy now, it's entirely possible that there was plenty that Shen could have loved. I would also say that if the villain is the hero of his own story, it may be possible others view him in a similar light. Much of what we know of Sakai, comes from Splinter's retelling of their history (which is likely fairly biased) and the occasional appearance of the character who is often shrouded in mystery. I feel like there is potentially a lot more to the character and his motivation than meets the eye. And it would be interesting to get more of Sakai's side of the story.

And I don't know that I would say the Karai=Miwa thing was obvious. They certain left the possibility open and even the occasional hint but it still required a leap in logic, especially early on. Plus hindsight is 20/20. It's also incredibly out of canon.

Stay Stalwart!

Paige
Newbie
Posts: 6
Permalink
Post Re: Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (SPOILERS)
on: August 14, 2013, 19:27
Quote

I'm just interested in season 2. They brought in a whole lot of closure through reuniting April with her father and giving a (rather weak) reason for the Krang wanting April. With the Krang ship not completely destroyed, it seems, and at the bottom of a river/lake/whatever, we can be pretty sure we will see more of them, though it may take a few episodes. I expect the next season will focus more on backstory, the relationships between the Turtles, and possibly more Mr. O'Neil and Donnie moments. As someone who decided not to watch the earlier generations of TMNT because the animation just seems painful to me, I want to see some character development as well, particularly with Raph. The pet turtle is both ironic and adorable, but I want to see something deeper than a tsundere character for once. If I want that I'll just hang out with Neil in Harvest Moon: A New Beginning.
I also want the whole story behind Shredder/Splinter, as even with the latest developments we still know very, very, very little about their pasts. Again, I haven't watched the previous generations for the same reasons I don't watch the previous generations of My Little Pony. I just don't want to go there. If I'm missing something I hope I'll pick it up in future episodes.
Because the entire first season hung so heavily on the Krang for all of the motivation, I can only hope and pray that season 2 doesn't do the same thing with Shredder or whatever new baddie they throw at us. I may be a stickler for slice-of-life stuff, but that's where a lot of character growth stems from and it's a nice change of pace from time to time.

Ja-Mez
Administrator
Posts: 125
Permalink
Post Re: Nickelodeons Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (SPOILERS)
on: August 15, 2013, 12:57
Quote

Yes the payoff for the April storyline seems incredibly unsatisfying. I have a feeling that there is meant to be more to that, or that it will be an ongoing thing, or maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part.

I do like the nod that the Technodrome is stranded at the bottom of the unspecified body of water (likely either the Atlantic ocean but I will have to watch again to see if there are any better indicators). Its a fun nod to the original animated series when the Technodrome was continually being stranded in unfortunate places, which was probably the writers' way of keeping this supposed ultimate weapon from always being a threat while keeping the Villains of the show continually present.

It will be interesting to see what they do with Kirby being a presence in the show in season 2. Traditionally April has largely been alone, her parents deceased, her sister absent and in at least one version her uncle was lost to a different world. Clearly in most incarnations her father meant something to her as she usually keeps his antiques shop running just to keep part of him alive. But that's not a part of her story this time (though I am hoping that Kirby might open a 2nd Time Around in this series). I am intrigued what they will do with April having family around (of course she had an apparent unseen Aunt) especially since the conceit of her relationship with the Turtles was that she didn't really have anyone else familiar (except for this apparent Aunt). This makes me wonder if Kirby will be killed or written out somehow, since he clearly is no longer April's MacGuffin.

Turtle character growth would be nice. Sadly Raph, while potentially the most emotionally complex character, is too often sidled with the role as the team aggressor and only occasionally shows real depth. And sadly he, Mike and Don have all settled nicely into their usual team roles. So in order to get the character growth you want, the writers are going to have to start taking these characters in new directions. Leo I think has the most room to grow, especially if he wants to get to the point where he surpasses Splinter as a martial artist, but that will take time.

And while I won't try to convince you to watch the original series, I do recommend the 2003 series. As much as I love the original Turtles, it's not known for it's depth or story. It's fun and nostalgic with kick-ass music, but unfortunately it lacks a certain maturity. the 2003 series however, has pretty good depth and while the characters aren't as dynamic as the Nick series counterparts, it does have a pretty fascinating ongoing storyline, that pulls from the source material heavily while establishing it's own canon and history. It hasn't aged as well as I would like, but I do think that it has plenty to offer anyone that is interested in the TMNT story.

However, what I look foward to the most is the fallout from the Karai revelation and seeing the relationship between Splinter and Shredder evolve. And yes I agree, more backstory!!

Stay Stalwart!

Pages: [1]